The Millennial PhD: Creative Survival at Work & Beyond

Ep. 9. Know Your Worth & the Power of the Professional Pivot ft. designer Andrew Harris (+ Bonus Unsolicited Relationship Tips)

December 08, 2021 Carmela Season 1 Episode 9
The Millennial PhD: Creative Survival at Work & Beyond
Ep. 9. Know Your Worth & the Power of the Professional Pivot ft. designer Andrew Harris (+ Bonus Unsolicited Relationship Tips)
Show Notes Transcript

Project Manager and freelance Designer Andrew Harris talks about pivoting from one profession to another, the importance of moving on if you're undervalued, navigating diverse work environments as a man of color, and translating so-called "soft" skills to a new career path. He shares about his journey into freelance design. And, for fun, we chop it up about our WEDDING - which just passed - and the life lessons we took away from it all.

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Speaker 1 (00:09):

Welcome to the Millennial PhD, a podcast about creative survival and beyond. My name is Dr. Carmela Muzio Dormani, and I'm a sociologist, dancer and creative consultant from New York. In these episodes, you'll find inspiration, ideas, and actionable tips for building new pathways forward in work and life. You'll hear from artists, activists, creative entrepreneurs, PhDs, and professional pivoters. We talk about radical humanity and practical steps to follow your dreams, even in the context of challenging social conditions. Before we jump into today's episode, a quick reminder to follow the millennial PhD on Instagram. And to please take a minute to rate and a review the millennial PhD on Apple podcasts. Your rating really helps the show reach as many listeners as possible. You can learn more about me and get access to free creative resources on the millennial PhD Instagram page, I hope you enjoyed the episode. Welcome back to the millennial PhD where we've been talking art, creativity, and radical humanity in motion. Today is a very special episode because our guest today is my partner and new husband Andrew Harris. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the show. 

Speaker 2 (01:32):

Thank you for having me. 

Speaker 1 (01:33):

Hello, <laugh>. Um, so, and, and you're not just here because we're partnered. You are here to talk about your creative work in as a designer and your professional development that you've experienced over the last couple of years, which has been a pretty incredible story and journey in, in my humble and unbiased opinion <laugh>. Um, but I did things, it will start us off with something just a little bit more fun and a little bit more intimate, um, just to get started, uh, for this special kind of mini episode that we're doing. Um, so we threw a wedding a couple weeks ago. Hey? Yes, we did. Yes, we did. Um, and we're basking in the post wedding, I guess, relief <laugh>, 

Speaker 2 (02:18):

Right? Postnuptial. 

Speaker 1 (02:20):

Um, so I think maybe, do you wanna share a favorite moment from that event that we got to share together? 

Speaker 2 (02:27):

Yeah, I mean, uh, it all was a favorite moment, uh, to, not to be nice, wild cliche, but I, I was very present throughout everything. I think some of the, the more like behind the scenes moments were, were my favorite. Um, definitely sitting with, uh, my father and my groomsmen both in, in the hotel and in the venue. Um, also, uh, sitting with you after we had made our vows, but before we went down, uh, to kind of greet our loving and enduring community. Um, and I think the ceremony actually was something that stands out in my mind. It's just really awesome and powerful and quick. It was like, you know, 25 minutes, but it was still then, Oh, and then the party, the party was awesome. 

Speaker 1 (03:15):

<laugh>, so the, so all the parts, right, right. 

Speaker 2 (03:17):


Speaker 1 (03:18):

<laugh>. Um, I honestly feel like, uh, I feel like after putting together this wedding, I should be able to put like project management <laugh> on my, on my cv. Yeah, absolutely can. So if anybody is looking for that, hit me up. Um, cuz it was, it was, it was a whole big thing. Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (03:36):

Facilitation skills. Crazy 

Speaker 1 (03:38):

<laugh>. Um, but, but it was great. And, um, I wanted to ask you if you could say maybe two or three life lessons you took away from trying to plan a big event, plan a wedding in the middle of working full time soon after changing jobs, uh, and in the middle of dealing with the, the kind of tail end of the pandemic, any life lesson they've pulled away from Yeah. This planning process. Okay. 

Speaker 2 (04:07):

Uh, three, three life lessons that I've pulled away from this process. Uh, the first thing is flexibility is a, is a definite skill to, to have things are gonna pop up and, you know, you, you always have an idea of what something is gonna look like or what you want it to be. And, uh, inevitably there's, there's things that are gonna, uh, you're gonna be confronted with that you have to be flexible about. And, um, that doesn't mean completely like changing what you're looking for, but just, uh, changing how you expect things to happen. And then, um, I think the second thing that I would say was a life skill, uh, is that, um, follow through is something that requires action. And if you, and by you, I mean me in this scenario, but in in general, if, if, if you're not gonna do something, it won't get done. 

So you have to do it. And if you, if you say you're gonna do something and then someone's waiting on you, you gotta do it. You gotta do it, you gotta do it, <laugh>. And so I think that was something that, that I learned, uh, very quickly. And I, you know, I don't, I, I don't say I, I nailed it a hundred percent, but I think towards the end I kind of got got in my mind that, okay, we're like throwing this, this, this is gonna have to happen in certain, with a certain degree of, of, uh, just time, uh, consideration. And yeah, you gotta do it cuz if you don't, then Carmelo's gonna do it. And that's neat. Yeah. And that's all like, I think, um, 

Speaker 1 (05:44):

Should we do a relationship advice podcast, 

Speaker 2 (05:46):

Max? I mean, I'm down for that <laugh>, uh, I'm down for that, fellas. I got you. Um, but so the third thing I think would be for, for an event like a wedding, um, you can never predict family and friends and how they're gonna like, you know, just go through the process with you. Um, you know, you make, you make, we make choices as we, as we live with our friend family, with our friends, and, you know, there's, there's some people who are just gonna be right or die, you know, they'll be down for you. And there's some people who are gonna, you know, they'll, things are going on. So, you know, you just gotta be aware of that. Um, and at the end of the day, it's just you and whoever you're planning with. So that's my advice. Good 

Speaker 1 (06:30):

Life advice across the board. We, I appreciate it. Um, so like I said, this is, this is fun to chat about this, but, um, it's not the only reason you're here. Um, I did wanna talk to you a little bit about your creative work so that you could share your experience with the folks listening. Um, and so I will give a little bit of a bio for you since I kind of skipped over that, um, for the people. So Andrew is a project manager at the Community Grounded Design organization, Hester Street, in New York City. And he's also a freelance designer most frequently of cycling apparel, uh, a native New Yorker and an active member of the arts community. Andrews deeply invested in the continual cultural dialogue of the city, believing that it's rich traditions and the respective places they inhabit provide great significance and value to the community. 

He applies his interest in the intersection of architecture and culture to providing community driven design to enhance the living experience of New York's neighborhoods. Andrew is trained as an architect for the bachelor's and master's degree from the University of Pennsylvania and Pratt Institute respectively. And he previously worked at a number of architecture firms. In 2020, he was awarded an Urban Design Forefront Fellowship from the Urban Design Forum to focus on the use of pub local public climate investment funding to support minority and women own businesses. Um, so I'm excited to, to talk to you for a few minutes about your experiences because this podcast has been geared toward, um, first of all, just talking to people who do interesting creative work, potentially interesting social justice oriented work. Um, which I think would cover, would both apply to some of the work that you're doing, but it's also about folks kind of stepping away from environments that are not working through them anymore, especially professional environments. 

Um, so, uh, whether it be from the PhD or academia, um, or any other type of, uh, previous professional training and experience moving towards something that resonates more and is more in alignment with you whenever possible. It's kind of the crux of the conversations I've been having with people who do all different types of work. Um, and I, I know from being your partner that that's been some of your experience over the last couple of years. Um, so can you tell me a little bit about your transition from formal architecture into the work that you're doing now? 

Speaker 2 (08:54):

Uh, yeah. So my transition from formal architecture into the work, uh, that I'm doing now has been kind of ongoing for the better part of the last two years. I think, um, I identified that I wasn't really happy with, uh, nothing, nothing in particular, but also a whole bunch of things in different capacities. Being black in a design space is something that's always interesting and challenging. And I think those, those frustrations combined with just general overwork, uh, started me to, uh, just kind of look elsewhere. Um, and then in conjunction with the urban design forms, uh, 2020, uh, Forefront Fellowship that I received, uh, I started working with a group of about 25 really diverse professionals, um, for that kind of spanned the design public policy, uh, engineering. There were some teachers, it, it just, uh, financial individuals, um, kind of ran that, ran the spectrum. 

And working aside from working in architecture with this group, um, for, for an entire year was really inspiring. And the kind of cross-disciplinary collaboration that we, that kind of we needed to embark on to reach our goals of, of, uh, defining, uh, policy recommendations and pursuing individual projects in, in the, um, in our, in our New York City space to kind of respond to some of the, the need that we had assessed was just very inspirational. And, uh, you know, when I was working with them, you know, we had to have very difficult conversations about what our communities faced, um, what our, what our, the situation that we were living through at the time actually was, was the pandemic it that we are living through right now. Um, and so, you know, all of those difficult conversations around, uh, access around money, around how, who's getting what, what support, how businesses are, are, are kind of getting through this, how black and and brown and women owned businesses are not getting through this, um, in, in different capacities. 

All those required, uh, and, and understanding that there was gonna be some, some hard conversations and we had to embark on those conversations together as a group and be vulnerable. And I think that, uh, I didn't think it was possible for a group of professionals at that, at the level that we were to also lead with that type of vulnerability and that type of honesty and that type of trust. And I realized I didn't really see it in, um, in the, uh, place that I was, I was at, um, professionally, and I hadn't seen it in any significant capacity in, um, the last, I guess, decade of, of working in architecture. And that's kind of what inspired me to, to see if this could be something that I could work, uh, this type of space that I could work in around people in a collaborative nature, tackling issues that directly pertain to us, um, in the city, in New York City, in, in our neighborhoods new, uh, Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens, Manhattan. 

Like, you know, that's where I'm from. Um, and so I started to ask if is it possible, and I got, uh, some really good direction from the, uh, director of the, uh, fellowship and, and my peers and, and my support network, uh, kind of just kind of said, Hey, you wanna do this? You should. Um, you have, Oh, and I, I guess that was part of the conversation was seeing, uh, you know, identifying if I had the skills to actually leave architecture. Um, uh, I don't know how to articulate it other than kind of with the capital A, but I think just the, the architecture for, as a professional space, um, and into a more kind of ambiguous design space. 

Speaker 1 (13:03):

Um, and how, how is it on the other side? 

Speaker 2 (13:07):

<laugh>? It is really, really nice on the other side. Um, I I, I wish I had a, a different way to articulate it because I mean, I think I'm definitely still in the, like, the honeymoon phase. It's only been a couple of months, um, seven months now since I've been out of, of architecture in that capacity. But I mean, it, I think there's a couple of differences. Uh, one, I moved from a space, uh, that was where I was the minority, um, to a space that I'm a majority, meaning, uh, I'm a person of color working in a, a company who, uh, that is made up of predominantly other people of color. We're still very, very diverse. Um, but when you go from being one of the only black people in a room for the better part of 15 years, and I'm including school in that too, to, uh, sitting around a table of other black and brown, uh, you know, individuals, professionals, and your, your mentors are that the people who you're working with are that your peers, the younger professionals that are, are, are coming up, uh, underneath you or also, uh, of color. 

It just makes a difference. And I've, I've noticed, I've been looked at differently. Um, how I've been received has also been, uh, something that I've, I've been very happy to experience finally. Um, whereas, you know, I, I don't find myself having to justify why I'm there. Um, and I don't have to explain. It's kind of, it's kind of trusted that my experience is, is valid and the skills that I bring to the table aren't just skills that are, that you have, you know, in, in traditional spaces, but they're also what I like to call, like the soft skills. So, and, and people appreciate that, um, in, in this space, right? With, with regards to the projects that I'm doing, they, the projects are, are still very much involved in community, in space, in access. Um, but I'm on the other side of the table. So instead of endlessly slaving over drawings and, and, and window schedules and details and things that are, are necessary and important for architecture, but that I didn't really care to be investing my time and in, in that regard, past a certain point, um, I'm contributing to the aspects of projects that I do want to, and those are design, that's community engagement, uh, that, you know, that's working with, uh, the individuals in the community to kind of help them articulate, um, what what they want to see in space and working with organizations to bring that into reality. 

And also working with organizations to, to assess what they need and help them bring those needs into reality. So it's, it's really more of an engaging, um, existence. Uh, and I'm happy. 

Speaker 1 (16:07):

Yeah. Um, thank you sharing. And I wanna go back to something you said as you were starting to give this response, uh, which was about that question that you had of do my skills translate. Um, and then you mentioned it again, kind of in the middle of your response, talking about the idea of these quote unquote soft skills, um, which in fact are these critical, critical and, you know, not soft at all, right? But, but we all, we all call them that, um, these critical and useful skills that you excel at and have brought to your new organization and all the spaces you inhab. And I bring that up, not just to like praise you, right? I, I obviously and do, um, but also <laugh> because this is something that I think a lot of, uh, people struggle with, kind of as we're thinking about trying to pivot or trying to go into a new field or trying to explore the area that, and maybe an area that's closer to our heart or closer to our personal experiences or an area that's artistic or creative. 

And so feel scary or it feels in some way or another, like, um, it warrants the question, am I worthy to be there? Um, and kind of being able to look at the translatable skills that you had, uh, in abundance already and they weren't being utilized fully in one space, but now they're really at the core and the center of what you're doing. And I think that's what a lot of, a lot of people are searching for and are hoping for to be able to, um, and of course, we can always work on like articulating those skills and the language of wherever we're applying. Um, that's definitely part of that work when doing, doing a professional pivot. Uh, but, but it's, you know, it's just the way you were talking about it was, was really interesting. Um, let's talk a little bit also about your freelance work, because I think the, first of all, things like freelance and consulting are these kind of like mysterious but, but pretty desirable things. I feel like I always see other people doing like freelance gigs or consulting work, and I'm like, What is this? And how did you get to do it? Um, so in your case, you, you do a pretty good amount of freelance design work at this point. Um, can you talk a little bit about, um, some of your major projects and maybe how you got into that? 

Speaker 2 (18:34):

Yeah. Um, okay. So, uh, a lot of the freelance design that I do, um, is centered around design of cycling kits. And, um, I'm, I'm an avid cyclist, very passionate about it. And the opportunity had presented it itself with the club that I'm part of and Major Taylor Iron Riders a year ago to kind of get involved in the kit design. And since then, it's kind of taken off as, as a, not only a passion of mine, but, um, something that I've been really happy to see come into fruition because it's been, uh, wonderful to see something that I designed that I worked on that I, you know, envisioned in my mind on people's bodies, um, all over the city, all over the country. And we've sold a couple of kids internationally, so I, I can say globally, Um, and, you know, the, the design process is always a little hectic. 

You know, there's, there's always considerations that, that, uh, you know, that try to be brought in. But I think, um, some of the projects that I'm, I'm really proud of, I designed a kit for, uh, Black Lives Matter, uh, not for the organization, but rather for the social movement that has been, um, kind of just take, has been taking up as much space as it needs to and as it should. Um, and, you know, we've seen kind of different responses from all types of creatives. And this was my opportunity to contribute, I guess, to, uh, that of national conversation. So it was a series of kits, um, that was designed in conjunction with some club a of mine and, uh, the club, the kits commemorate the, uh, lives lost to police brutality, um, over some of slim spanning like 50 years. So that's, that's one of the, uh, the projects that I'm very proud of. 

And we're still, we're still, uh, we have some designs coming out now for that. Additionally, I've done some, several club kits, and that's been fun because, you know, the club's identity is, is always something that, you know, you pride yourself on at and think of any, any team and, uh, you know, to have the opportunity to represent your, your people and your group, uh, and, and make, make other people fly and feel great when they're on their, on their bikes. Uh, and it, it's just been, it's been pretty dope. So, uh, that's been something that we've been working on. And we have a, uh, another project, um, in the tank. We're working on some, uh, black history month kits that are coming out in 2022. And then potentially there's, uh, a major Taylor a hundred year anniversary for the national, uh, organization that I think is, is where it will be coming down the pipeline. 

Speaker 1 (21:17):

In terms of, um, actually one question before I pivot to that. Um, how do you feel when you're wearing your kit or when you see other people wearing it? 

Speaker 2 (21:28):

I, I mean, I, barring one, one kit that I, I have, that I got as a gift also by a black designer, uh, an organization, um, in, in the uk, uh, all the kits that I wear are my own. And it feels great to kind of design my own drip and rocket, you know, on, on the bike. Everywhere I go, I get questions about it. Whenever I wear any of the, the kids, cause I have several, um, it's as a kind of a rule, I, I get my kits that I design, like I have to have a copy of, of each one of them. And even, even as, as recently as two weeks ago, um, it was Major Taylor, uh, his, his birthday, and we were commemorating his ride, uh, with a commemorative ride. Met up with the clubs, about 20, 25 people, and everybody was wearing a almost everybody, maybe a 95% was wearing a kit that I designed. 

And it was, it's, it's, I'm not, I'm, I don't get used to it. Uh, it's always, it's always humbling. I went out to la met up with a group in la they had my kids signed. I was like, Oh, this is great. Um, and it's just, it's nice, you know, because they look great. They feel great, Everybody loves 'em. And I'm just proud, you know, I'm proud to to, to be a part of that feeling. Um, because I think we, we don't get enough of, of that, like every, uh, all of my creative endeavors, e even when I was dancing, was like geared towards making people happy and helping people get into a space where they feel good about wherever they're at. Um, so I think it's just, this is just an extension of that. 

Speaker 1 (23:11):

Amazing. If, so, for you, sort of the opportunity came up somewhat organically, um, to design, but you had been playing around with it, but it, if you were gonna give someone advice who said to you that, you know, they have the skills or, or the interest and they'd like to get into designing, doesn't have to be apparel, but freelance design. What would you say is like a first or second step? 

Speaker 2 (23:40):

Um, I would say the first step is getting it into your mind that there is no right or wrong way to like start creating. And there is no love that dumb ideas. Yeah. Because, you know, and whatever medium is, is the medium that you like to work and just grab a pen or hop on the computer or if you have an instrument, you know, just things are so accessible now that you can do anything and teach yourself anything in a matter of, you know, an hour on, on YouTube, um, or, you know, find a free program or whatever, just like start moving. The second thing I think I would, I would say, and it's something that I did, is, um, take advantage of the tools that your disposal. So i e Instagram, um, identify others who are doing what you like to do in any capacity and just like reach out to them. 

I've reached out to several, uh, cycling designers, companies, people playing around with graphics on bicycles and just like, introduce myself real quick and sent a message and, and probably 85% of those messages got responses and led to just like, really great quick conversations, you know, because everybody likes to talk about something that no one wants to ask them about, which is like how they're doing what they're doing. Um, and there's a lot of like, niche kind of cool things that are happening. And if, you know, you have the opportunity to get someone's ear, absolutely do it. Um, and I think you didn't ask for three, but something that I, I would add to that, and something that I'm constantly telling myself and trying to get better at is just like, there's always things that could potentially be left on the, like, cutting room floor. Just get 'em, just put 'em out, um, and track everything that you do, whether it be, you know, a, a a, a hard copy portfolio, something digital, something online, like I'm still getting around to amassing the, the work that I've done, but like, ideas come and inspiration come, and you just really wanna have that kind of tucked away because as they say, I think it's, it's, it's better to stay ready than to get ready. 

I'm messing that up. I don't know what it is, but it's something along those lines. Better, better to be ready than to have to get ready. It's one of stay 

Speaker 1 (25:53):

Ready so you don't have to get ready 

Speaker 2 (25:54):

That seat <laugh>, that's why I keep you around. That's, that's what it's, but yeah, that, that's, that's about it. 

Speaker 1 (26:00):

Yeah. Um, so keeping on the theme of advice, I did wanna ask you before, this is a little bit out of order, but I also wanted to ask if you had any advice that you would give, um, for someone who said that they wanted to transition out of architecture or whatever kind of professional environment mm-hmm. They've been in. What are some of what are, you know, first two or three steps? Um, and you can gear your advice specifically to people of color who have been in those spaces or, uh, folks who have been marginalized or you can give kind of general advice. Um, but what are, you know, what's the starting point? Because I think a lot of people are stuck right there at that first or second 

Speaker 2 (26:42):

Step. Okay. Um, I think, so I got a couple of, I'll take it from a couple of directions. I think the, the starting point that everyone should, uh, kind of take is just to identify you. Like why, um, don't make the mistake of being, of staying too long in one place that's making you unhappy. Um, if you're not happy, sometimes you don't need to articulate it more so than just feeling it. And if you fall into the trap of like trying to find yourself a reason, you're wasting, you're wasting time. Um, I think for people of color in spaces, um, there can be a bunch of extra steps that we have to kind of navigate internally also, um, try to keep those, you know, not, not necessarily in check or at bay, but if you have a network of of people that you talk to, share them, you know, share with them how you're feeling, uh, definitely lean into that because it ca it can get, you know, it can get kind of lonely and not everybody has to understand why you feel like you need to leave or move in order in order to do that. 

Um, and I think something else that helped me was I identified, um, and this is, this is for architecture, but it can also be applied to, to kind of any type of transitions. We have a bunch of skills that no one tells us our skills because they're, at the end of the day, I believe that they're, they're not taking advantage, but it's like anything that you bring to your job is making money for another company. So basically all of the, all of your education, all of the, you know, things you do that you feel like, Oh, this is just something on a day to day that I anybody can do. They might not, it might necessarily be that way. So consider that a skill. Like you can kind of figure out a way to craft it on a resume or to, to articulate it, you know, in a cover letter, um, because that's what everyone else is doing. 

Uh, and if it's not, it doesn't need to be a one-to-one translation for architecture. We have a bunch of skills that we get, um, in our, in our education that, uh, really know. I I, I'm hard pressed to find another profession that has as many intersecting, um, skill sets as architects do and as architecture does. And so that, whether that's graphic design, there's definitely some type of like organizational component as well. It's definitely project management skills, which is something that I didn't, I didn't really believe I had, but you, you do. Um, and even the interpersonal skills and that we, we kind of touched on the, what I had labeled soft skills earlier, but the ability to sit in a room and connect with people is not a soft skill. That is, that is a skill in and of itself. So if you're someone who, you know, works well on teams, if you organize people really, really well, like those, those are all aspects of, you know, your skill set that can be kind of, that are desirable to, to, to other places and to other employers. 

And then I think the third thing that's just more, uh, of an umbrella that helped me make that transition was, um, there's this concept, there is this concept of, um, it's called eki guy. I hope I'm pronouncing that right. Um, I'm, I'm almost certain it's a Japanese concept, and it's basically you, you take what you, what you love doing, what you're good at doing and can make money for it, uh, what benefits the world. And I can't remember the, there's a, there's a fourth box. I might have to like remember, have to edit this and come back and put it in. But basically you make a, like a diagram. Um, and at the, in, at the center of that, you make a list like a Venn diagram, and at the center of that, if there's something that intersects with all four, then you're, that's, that's what your pur purpose is. And so I, I did that exercise when I was like transitioning, and that's how social justice architecture design kind of came into, into play. 

Speaker 1 (30:45):

I had no idea about that story right now. Yeah. Um, and it's interesting, sorry to, you know, kind of like crush your story a little bit, but, um, as I've been thinking about kind of how I can support, um, folks transitioning out of academia, or are we trying to start creative side hustles or whatever, I've been coming back a lot to our, like Jesuit social teachings, <laugh> Yeah. That both of us had some experience at, um, which was, is looking for what you're, what you're passionate about or what you're good at, um, and where it overlaps well, what the world needs. Yeah. Um, but it, this is, there's some overlaps there for sure, but that's fascinating. I had no idea that you went through that process while you were looking into your 

Speaker 2 (31:29):

Way out. I mean, I, I, I can't take credit for like finding that stumbling upon it in my network. I was, I've been talking to a lot of people and, and, uh, uh, one of my partners at the time, um, business partner, uh, Christina actually pointed me in the direction of, uh, of these kind of podcasts that we're talking about career transition. And that's where I discovered that. So 

Speaker 1 (31:54):

Amazing. Yeah. Okay. Well, is there anything else that I didn't ask you about, um, that you would wanna share to anybody listening? 

Speaker 2 (32:04):

Um, I think 

It's worth making, making that change. It takes a little bit of courage to kind of put yourself out there, but you define who you are and you define what's important to you. I think we give the companies that we work for a lot of credit, um, that's, that they haven't earned, uh, because, you know, we're, we rely on them for money and life, and those things should be separated at, you know, at any opportunity. And so if you're thinking about, you know, any type of switch, just start to start moving. Um, and you don't necessarily have to tell anybody anything, or you can, like, it's been, there's, there's ways to be true to yourself, but basically just don't, don't keep yourself in a situation where you're unhappy, um, in any, in any capacity. 

Speaker 1 (32:57):

That's a great note to end on, I think. Um, so Andrew, if people wanna connect with you, where can they find you? 

Speaker 2 (33:04):

They can find me on Instagram, uh, SALs architect, uh, because I dance salsa and I am an architect. Um, so s a l s architect. Uh, and then, yeah, that's, that's my information. 

Speaker 1 (33:19):

And that will be linked in the bio <laugh> notes as well, if you didn't catch the spelling. And we'll see you next week for the next episode. Thanks again, Andrew, for being on 

Speaker 2 (33:29):

The show. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. 

Speaker 1 (33:33):

That's it for this week's episode of the Millennial PhD. You can find more content, resources and information on Instagram at the millennial PhD in this collective moment of reevaluating our relationships with work and exploitation. I look forward to connecting with you and building stronger bonds of community and collaboration. I would love to hear from you via email at the millennial with any feedback, comments, questions, or concerns, or if you're interested in coming on the show as a guest. That's all for now. It's been real. See you next time.