The Millennial PhD: Creative Survival at Work & Beyond

Ep 37. Empowerment, Healing, and Intimacy Work ft. Dr. Kimberly Rose Pendleton

October 26, 2022 Carmela Season 3 Episode 37
Ep 37. Empowerment, Healing, and Intimacy Work ft. Dr. Kimberly Rose Pendleton
The Millennial PhD: Creative Survival at Work & Beyond
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The Millennial PhD: Creative Survival at Work & Beyond
Ep 37. Empowerment, Healing, and Intimacy Work ft. Dr. Kimberly Rose Pendleton
Oct 26, 2022 Season 3 Episode 37

Mela talks intimacy, affect, and embodied care with the incredible Dr. Kimberly Rose Pendleton, who shares her story of leaving academia and starting her own business as an intimacy coach (and so much more).

If you're interested in creating new ways to share your knowledge, this deeply inspired episode is for you!

Kimberly is the creator of UNCOVER, a global movement and community of women dedicated to the healing power of pleasure. With an M.A.,  a PhD, in-depth coaching training, and years of experience, it is her honor and pleasure to weave the intellectual side of empowerment, healing and intimacy work in with the embodied, playful practices of pleasure.

Connect with Kimberly at @drkimberlyrose on IG.

Interested in starting your own podcast? I host The Millennial Phd on Buzzsprout and I love it because, for me, it was the easiest and most user-friendly podcast hosting site. Follow this link to sign up, and you'll automatically get a $20 Amazon gift card included in your sign up; plus, it helps support The Millennial PhD. Happy podcasting!

Support the Show.

Dr. Carmela Muzio Dormani - aka your host, Mela - is a sociologist, dancer, and creative consultant.

Learn more about Mela and get access to creative resources at

The Millennial PhD is all about building community. Join the conversation:
- Connect with Mela on IG @melamuzio
- Follow @themillennialphd for up-to-date info on the podcast & blog.
- Email with feedback.

Show Notes Transcript

Mela talks intimacy, affect, and embodied care with the incredible Dr. Kimberly Rose Pendleton, who shares her story of leaving academia and starting her own business as an intimacy coach (and so much more).

If you're interested in creating new ways to share your knowledge, this deeply inspired episode is for you!

Kimberly is the creator of UNCOVER, a global movement and community of women dedicated to the healing power of pleasure. With an M.A.,  a PhD, in-depth coaching training, and years of experience, it is her honor and pleasure to weave the intellectual side of empowerment, healing and intimacy work in with the embodied, playful practices of pleasure.

Connect with Kimberly at @drkimberlyrose on IG.

Interested in starting your own podcast? I host The Millennial Phd on Buzzsprout and I love it because, for me, it was the easiest and most user-friendly podcast hosting site. Follow this link to sign up, and you'll automatically get a $20 Amazon gift card included in your sign up; plus, it helps support The Millennial PhD. Happy podcasting!

Support the Show.

Dr. Carmela Muzio Dormani - aka your host, Mela - is a sociologist, dancer, and creative consultant.

Learn more about Mela and get access to creative resources at

The Millennial PhD is all about building community. Join the conversation:
- Connect with Mela on IG @melamuzio
- Follow @themillennialphd for up-to-date info on the podcast & blog.
- Email with feedback.

Speaker 1 (00:09):

Welcome to the millennial PhD, a podcast about creative survival and beyond. My name is Dr. Carmela Muzio Dormani, and I'm a sociologist, dancer and creative consultant from New York. In these episodes, you'll find inspiration, ideas, and actionable tips for building new pathways forward in work and life. You'll hear from artists, activists, creative entrepreneurs, PhDs, and professional pivoters. We talk about radical humanity and practical steps to follow your dreams even in the context of challenging social conditions. Before we jump into today's episode, a quick reminder to follow the millennial PhD on Instagram and to please take a minute to rate and a review the millennial PhD on Apple podcasts. Your rating really helps the show reach as many listeners as possible. You can learn more about me and get access to free creative resources on the millennial PhD Instagram page I hope you enjoyed the episode. Welcome back to the Millennial PhD podcast. I'm your host me and today I'm talking with Dr. Kimberly Rose Pendleton, who is the creator of Uncover a global movement and community of women dedicated to the healing power of pleasure with an MA from Yale, a PhD in depth coaching, training, and years of experience. It is her honor and pleasure to weave the intellectual side of empowerment, healing, and intimacy work in with the embodied playful practices of pleasure. Kimberly, welcome and thank you so much for being here. 

Speaker 2 (01:49):

Thank you so much for having me. What a pleasure. 

Speaker 1 (01:52):

Yeah, yeah, <laugh>, I'm so excited to have you on. Um, I had mentioned to you before we started recording that I came across your page a while ago through a mutual acquaintance, and I think you are one of the first PhDs that I saw doing a type of coaching work. And I was super intrigued by it, especially because of the, the topic, um, area and kind of the way that you frame your work. So I'm really looking forward to hearing a little more about your story. And I read off kind of a little Cliff notes bio, but we can just jump in and start with can you tell us about yourself? 

Speaker 2 (02:29):

Yeah, thank you so much. And um, I really appreciate that framing too because it's true that when I was going through my PhD and even when I was kind of first starting out in this business, it felt really wobbly and weird to be sort of trying to bring these two sides together. And now it feels so normal, like the academic work and the intimacy work, it feels almost like of course, but the truth is, you know, even five years ago I was still sort of making it up like, would anybody want to be having these conversations and talking about these things outside of the classroom and in this more applied embodied way? And then it turned out the answer was like, absolutely yes. And so it's really fun to think about. Um, but yeah, so today Uncover is actually a seven figure business, which blows my mind. 

And we've got a team of people. I've got another coach working with me and we've got online programs. I do one-on-one coaching and small group coaching and retreats and stuff that I like really always kind of dreamed of, like taking clients to Paris and hosting them at my house and having these classes about trauma healing, but also just pleasure. And a lot of people were covering from different experiences where, you know, one way or the other, their body was sort of bad. Like whether it's religious trauma or sexual trauma or just like growing up in America, you know, just these like trauma. Yeah, right. <laugh> like sprinkle on all the structural oppression and like millennia racism. It's just like, oh, uh oh, we've got a lot of reasons that we might not feel at home in our body or at home in our relationships. And it has been really interesting and like really gratifying to see the ways that like a women's studies background or like a critical theory background or even religious studies has actually been useful for like random everyday people who are just trying to figure out like why they don't feel very good or how they could feel better. 

And I think that even that was so healing for me to see that like, oh, right, like this stuff matters. Actually all the stuff we spend no days talking about and writing about and doing my comprehensive exams about and blah blah blah. It's like, oh yeah, I can then like show up in this classroom online or a workshop in person and bring some of that to the table and like women around the world are, are like happy to hear it. 

Speaker 1 (05:22):

Yeah, it's amazing to hear you frame it, frame it that way and connect I guess some of the experience and expertise that you had built in academia, but then how you're able to kind of have a broader impact with it in in this very particular way. 

Speaker 2 (05:38):

Yeah. And like a way that I actually was so embarrassed about at first, like I didn't want anyone in my PhD program to know I had started doing these like right weird little workshops about like sex finding your Yeah, yeah. Like it's been like a me too workshop and it was like in the basement of this art studio in DC and I used a different, it was like, don't find me like, oh no, because even as a women's studies scholar, like you're not really supposed to be just like in lingerie on the internet, which I was. And then, you know, kind of the same on the other side, like the coaching world, which is super weird. Uh, you know, it's like normally not. I just didn't see anybody else who had like a PhD and a stack of books behind them, you know, it was more like mentors of mine where I, you know, I was like, Oh, if only I were just this like mystic and like not really even connected to the earth. 

And so I really felt kind of like an outsider in both and still do sometimes, but more and more I find like, oh, being the bridge is really fun and useful in this way. And um, like right now I've got actually a group, a small group that I coach in this nine month program. My mastermind and half of the women have PhDs. And so this is a new experience for me, but it's like the doctor's <laugh> my aunt and so I feel like oh okay, like word is out that like there is a place here to bring our really sometimes super specialized knowledge to the world at large. And many of them I think did come to me because they're also interested in figuring out a way to like almost translate their academic side out into maybe a more entrepreneurial side that could frankly like fund our academic habits. <laugh>. 

Speaker 1 (07:47):

Yeah, Yeah. No, absolutely. And that, that goes in line with the, like exodus from academia right now, some of which is people looking into entrepreneurship and and things like that. Yeah. Um, and I just wanna go off on a tiny tangent for a minute. Yeah. Just because, um, what you said about lingerie really resonates <laugh>. Yeah. Cause um, I'm a, I'm a dancer, um, a salsa dancer. Oh. Um, and I had been all throughout my PhD program, which was like a little uncomfortable, especially because sometimes it costumes are very revealing, Right. Social media and all that. And when I finished the PhD I just had this like moment of almost like panic like oh my god, am I like who do I have to present myself to be from from now on? And I quickly was like, that's bullshit. But still, it's something that comes up a lot and I, I know for, I hear that from lots of folks who come on the show or just in conversations. 

Speaker 2 (08:41):

Totally. No, I think that's huge actually. And it's so funny and ironic depending on our field, but I think I literally would go from like a class on affect theory and embodiment to like a workshop where I was like, I'm not sure I should admit that I'm doing this even though I am in so many ways like practicing what we're preaching over here. But there are so many old school rules and I get it. You know, and it's so complicated and the social dynamics and the kind of like different like power dynamics of like how we present ourselves and then especially if you're gonna go on the academic job market, it's like having a secret Instagram account of your like bud wire photos is maybe not the move <laugh> 

Speaker 1 (09:34):

Everybody. I love it. Um, let's back up for a minute. Um, yeah and can you just talk about what brought you to the decision to I guess pivot away from academia and also what is your, what was, what is your PhD in? 

Speaker 2 (09:50):

Yeah, no, this is like my secret favorite topic <laugh>, even though I avoided it for years but now I can't shut up about it. So my PhD is actually from the American Studies Department at GW in DC and I am like one of the only people I know, not from that department but just in general who had like an amazing experience doing my PhD. Mm-hmm <affirmative> like I got so lucky I had such an amazing advisor and I chose the program because of my advisor Melanie who worked on religion and like all the things that I was like most interested in like the gender politics of American evangelicals, which it turns out like super interesting. I really just needed to go to therapy I think, but whatever, I got a PhD instead. So I like show up at gw, uh, an American evangelical myself with questions about gender politics and like, you know, throughout that process had my own kind of religious evolution, my own awakening in different ways. 

I got married, I got divorced like whole lifetime within there. But the PhD itself was great and when I graduated I actually got offered a visiting assistant professor position at gw and like I'm sure you and your listeners unlike most of the people I talk to will know like what a huge fucking deal that was. I couldn't leave it. I was like this crazy but somebody, one of my other advisors happened to be leaving and so it was like here, oh like here is this spot. And I would've been teaching I think American history post reconstruction or something like that was like the dream. But the dream didn't come with <laugh> like health insurance after six months cuz it was a temporary position. So looking back, I have much more compassion for myself in this moment, but I found out I was pregnant unexpectedly and my boyfriend and I didn't live together, we weren't married yet, he didn't have health insurance and my health insurance if I had taken this fucking dream job was gonna end in June when I was like six months along and had no other job and like no other prospects. 

And so like four days before this semester started, uh, which is when I found out, I pulled out of my contract and I like went and got a job at an art gallery that had health insurance and wow it ended up being this like accidental bridge burning moment and everybody at GW was like understanding even though they were pissed, it was like, and I remember Melanie even being like, you know, we get it, you can't unburn this bridge cuz you are leaving him in alert like four days before classes are supposed to start. And I like kind of did what I could to be like, oh this person could help this person. But mostly I just left. And it's so interesting because then I know we're just like diving in but now I'm an intimacy coach so this is like normal for me now. But a a few months later I miscarried and I was like, oh I am totally free. 

And I started my business and I had been doing little things here and there, but it was like that was the moment I really launched uncover. Not that you don't need health insurance anymore, but still it was like, okay, well there's like a little bit more flexibility here. And I also felt um, a little bit like forced out, you know, even though obviously I was making choices, but I sometimes look back and wonder like what would've happened if I hadn't gotten pregnant? Would I have just like, would I be teaching history right now? Like it's such like a funny, weird alternate universe to imagine because this so feels like my like kind of calling, but I needed some like real direct nudges cuz I was like this was the plan. I did the things, I was the good student, the good girl, like follow the rules. 

And I know so many of my academic friends fit into that profile. And I would say that I even still have moments where I'm like, oh, but I failed at that track. Like I didn't actually do what I was like supposed to do over there and I'll talk about it with friends and they don't have a lot of patience for that cuz it's like, what do you mean failed? Like you're doing great, this is working, like everything is working but they're, that was just like so drilled into you that like there is this one path for success Yeah. Is like a tenure track job offer and that is it. And it's so interesting to kind of grapple with like what are the other possibilities? And at this point I would say like I'm getting to do more teaching with more freedom and having a a lot more fun than I think I would have had. I like, yeah, not failed, but there's still that part of me that is like, oh, like this is not what I was planning on doing. 

Speaker 1 (15:26):

Yeah. Yeah. That's a, it's an, that's an amazing story. That's 

Speaker 2 (15:31):

Crazy, right? My like little CEO like angel baby being like, Nope, you're not supposed to do that. Like, we're gonna get you over here. <laugh>, 

Speaker 1 (15:41):

It's a, an amazing kinda like personal anecdote but it also really illustrates like a parable about academia as well just oh like 

Speaker 2 (15:52):

The fuck. Right. You 

Speaker 1 (15:53):

Know, here you go, here's just like map, um 

Speaker 2 (15:57):


Speaker 1 (15:58):

But no healthcare um, or no no health insurance rather. 

Speaker 2 (16:02):

Right. And also thinking about, you know, people who didn't have maybe like a secret other job they wanted to try. It's like this would be so devastating. It's like oh and that is kind of a moment that you can't go back and fix and so then you're like kind of forcing some really impossible choices for I know not just women but it does seem like that a, you know, I graduated with my PhD when I was 30. It's like right at this like kinda pivotal moment for so many of us were questions of like, do I want a family? Am I gonna find a partner if I take this assistant professor job in like this tiny town if I'm queer? Like what is my name plan? You know, just these very real compromises that I know are par for the course with even the like winning track <laugh>. 

Speaker 1 (16:55):

Yeah, definitely that question about of pregnancy relationships, queer relationships and then par mothering and parenting, um, has come up, you know, many times for people in their kind of inability to stay on that very narrow path that is laid up for you. 

Speaker 2 (17:14):

Yeah, yeah. I remember hearing this story about, I don't think it was our department cuz I think I would've known, but a department that had a bulletin board and like a map and any time like a grad student got a tenure track job offer, like they became like a bulletin board on the map and someone was joking like, does everybody else, is there like a drawer of thumbtacks that's like all the ones that disappeared? And I picture myself being like out in like outer space, <laugh> 

Speaker 1 (17:47):

Not, not thumbtacks. 

Speaker 2 (17:49):

That's right. Or Paris I guess. But yeah, no, it's so interesting. Um, and then, you know, the, like not that every story ha needs a happy ever after, but like mine luckily really does have one. I mean it's been so interesting to see that because I'm bringing kind of information and even some of my old coursework and some of our old conversations like to the online space and to this business space, they really are, they're weaving their way into dis discourses that like otherwise I don't think they would be there. And like people are showing up to my work who would never have gotten, like, they wouldn't have enrolled as undergrads at gw, you know, and taken my classes. But like they are willing to meet on Thursday evenings online for like a Zoom class. And so we're having these discussions that I actually feel really grateful for a little like Robinhood vibe of like taking this like <laugh> ivory tower information and like bringing it over here and then obviously like I'm learning so much too. 

Speaker 1 (19:00):

Right. Yeah. And, and I do think that's kind of, that's the future, um, in different ways, you know, in my, um, so let's talk about, okay we, you, you brought us to kind of how you came to launch this program now. How does it go from that moment to where you're at now? 

Speaker 2 (19:19):

Yeah, so that's such a great question. I mean, the very first thing I did and the place that I would probably recommend anyone's start if they were kind of wanting to do this in a more intentional <laugh> less fly by the seat of their pants way was with a 10 week online class that I just promoted on my own social media and I had to swallow like every ounce of pride and fear and like all the thoughts about like, oh my god, my like ex-husband's mom is probably judging me right now as I do this. But like I put out this course called Uncover, which is now the name of my whole business and I said it was gonna be like a sexual trauma healing program and I was gonna have us meet every Wednesday night and I just did it on Zoom and this was actually, it's even easier now. 

I feel like everybody knows what Zoom is now, but for a little while I had to like film a little tutorial. I'm like, what is Zoom? And like how do you use it? Um, and then I recorded it and kept selling it after that. And so it was just this like snowball of figuring out like sometimes Nick, my partner would come home and see <laugh> with my computer being like, Whoa, like why isn't this working? But like figuring out PayPal links and like making my own website and stuff. And it ended up growing and growing. Like that was all online. I was doing a few local workshops around town in DC and eventually I just started to find my voice more and more and I started teaching a feminism 1 0 1 class that was kind of based on my undergrad women's studies courses and like adding in like bits and pieces here. 

And then once it got, I would say maybe like the first six figure year, um, I started getting questions about like, well how do you do this? I wanna do a version of this. And so then I started doing even a little bit of like, I guess what might be more like business consulting, but like how could you set this up yourself? But mostly it is still like clients who, you know, maybe they've been in therapy for a while, maybe they feel kind of done with that, but they just still want things to feel even better. So like finding their purpose or like having kind of a better time dating or coming back out into the world after getting divorced or leaving church or something like that. Basically like all the things that I ever considered like a source of shame are now making <laugh> making me money and making other people happier. So that is also kind of nice <laugh>. 

Speaker 1 (22:09):

Yeah. And so, so people can understand a little better. Can you explain a little bit more about the type of work you do? Like what does it mean to be an intimacy coach? 

Speaker 2 (22:22):

Yeah, totally. Um, I feel like my definition of intimacy is one that has kind of evolved over time and, and is a little unique. You know, I don't just mean sex, although a lot of people do come for that or like, it's one of the maybe like turning points of like, okay, I, I'm noticing that I'm like shutting down during sex and I like know it's from old trauma or you know, something like that. But it really does feel bigger than that. Like I would even say the work that we're talking about of like, how do I wanna be in the world and like what do, what am I here to say and what am I here to do? Like that has felt so much like intimacy work to me, like being so intimate with all the parts of us and then, you know, of course relationships and like how we show up in conflict and how we show up together. 

So I feel like I ended up kind of marrying some of the work that I had encountered academically but with some work that then I like also went and sought out around trauma specifically. And like around, I did a tantra training and like, I mean I really, it was mostly for me all at the beginning and then I realized like, oh a lot of this could go together. Um, but yeah, so for me intimacy coaching is kind of like getting to know yourself better so that you can then get to know everybody else you're in intimate relationships with even better. And I kind of think of sex as just like one slice of that. 

Speaker 1 (24:04):

Yeah. Super interesting. Um, so I'm gonna pivot just a little bit right here because I always like to ask, um, interviewees a couple of nuts and bolts questions. 

Speaker 2 (24:14):

Yeah. It, 

Speaker 1 (24:15):

Cause it's really helpful for people to hear what the day to day is like in your, in your work. Um, so what, what skills would you say you, you pull on and use the most in your, in your work right now? 

Speaker 2 (24:31):

Well, to be honest, <laugh>, I would say the number one thing that I have found to be helpful is being able to regulate my own emotions. And I wish that that, I feel like that should be like class number one for all grad students, <laugh> and professors and everyone. Cause I found that um, when I went and sought out trauma training, I thought I was going to use it like sporadically for like a rare client who brought something to me or was triggered on a call or something and I could be like, Oh good I have this in my back pocket. And instead like I feel like I learned these tools of like just regulating myself and I ended up using them every day <laugh> just on me like opening my own email and like it's like, oh okay, this is interesting. But like basically that turns out to be, you know, more helpful I think than anything we could have ever learned or studied or even like any credential, it's just like, can I be in this moment and trust myself no matter what. 

Like no matter what this client says, no matter what happens, you know, through the like kind of fear and excitement around being an entrepreneur and like not knowing if you're gonna get paid today or not, you know, it's like oh my god, emotional. Right. Although frankly between us, that was also true sometimes about my PhD stipend. So I feel like it was easier for me to transition cause I was like, at least now I control if I'm getting paid or not. But you know, just definitely to like hold yourself and trust yourself through it and like breathe and come back in and be like, okay, I'm gonna be okay no matter what. But then I would say a close second is like really valuing everybody's different stories, which I do think is something that really was cultivated in me through academia of like, okay, like I am gonna show up and trust that I can learn. 

I have something to learn from like each person. And I think in my department in particular, there was a commitment to, I don't know that they would've said it this way, but like to seeing basically everything as theory and like everything as text. So it was so helpful. You know, like some of my colleagues were writing about video games and X-men and romance novels and I was writing about like, you know, weird missionaries stuff. It was like there was this kind of assumption that every story's important, every story is weird <laugh>, which I don't say that to my clients, but it is true. And like I have something, you know, to learn no matter what is happening. Um, I feel like that attitude has been really helpful where like I'm not, um, yeah, I'm not like dismissing anybody. 

Speaker 1 (27:39):

Yeah, definitely. It's just good pedagogy. 

Speaker 2 (27:41):

Totally, totally. 

Speaker 1 (27:44):

Um, what does a typical day look like for you right now? 

Speaker 2 (27:48):

Yeah, so I will admit this is not how it's been every day of the like four years of owning this business. But I am happy we're having the conversation now <laugh>, because the truth is now that days are great and like so gentle I would say. Um, but a typical, so my week I do coaching calls on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, uh, the first three weeks of the month. So basically like if someone signs on as a private client or even in the group we meet the first three weeks of each month and then I take the last month off as like an integration, I mean the last week off as an integration period. And they do too. And that has turned out to be great. Um, and then those are the only days I coach and the rest of the time I am like working on the bigger picture stuff in the business. 

Some of the admin, I now have a little team, so we'll do meetings on Thursdays, podcast interviews, <laugh>, um, and just kind of writing and coming up with more things that could help people come in. Uh, so it's really great. It feels like really spacious and open. I start around 10 and I end around four and it's just like, oh my gosh, like two days a week I'm working. But the truth is there is like another piece to that of like kind of always being on. Like I feel like with my social media especially, which is where a lot of people find us, um, there's a little bit of a feeling of like, well I'm always working cuz I'm always posting and telling people about what's going on. But it's definitely easier. It's not like I can be in my backup on my phone on Instagram being like, this is what's coming up. 

Um, so it does, it feels really great. And then that last week of each month I try to be fully off and go travel or just stay home. I'm sure that like Sunday this will have to shift, but for now it's just like me <laugh> like having this kind of indulgent life and it does feel, it feels a lot more, um, like paced with like a, hmm, how do I wanna say it? Well, I'll put it this way. A lot of my clients are parents or have a chronic illness or, um, yeah, or like me that you just don't wanna work all the time. And so it's also been, it's been really nice to like prove that that's possible and that you can really shift over into like a gentle pace and still do really good work. Maybe even better work than before. And so when I look back at the other years of running the business where I was working more and kind of saying yes to all hours, Like I had a client in Indonesia once and so we were like 12 hours apart. 

So it was like, okay, we're either doing calls at 7:00 AM or 7:00 PM and like right neither one, you're really getting the greatest version of me <laugh>. Um, but you know, when I think about why it was easy at the time to say that it was because of money, but I actually think I was just so conditioned and had conditioned myself so much that like if you're not working hard then like you're bad, like, what's going on? Or there's no way this work could be worthwhile or of service if you're not like also burned out and exhausted. So I think like making some of those internal shifts really is like the bigger reason that it's not like that anymore. 

Speaker 1 (31:36):

Makes sense. What would you say is a rose and a thorn for you about the work that you do? So something that yeah, you're loving something. Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (31:44):

Not I love that question. Um, well the thorn <laugh>, I feel like I can probably tell you and your audience even more than how it would land maybe in another conversation. But it is wild how unregulated coaching is. And like this field I can like point to colleagues of mine who are seeing the craziest shit and I'm like, Oh no, no, no, no. Like, oh. And it'll be like, you know, I'm a doctor, like the vaccine is poison and you're like, Oh god, like your doctorate is in English. Like none of it makes any sense. And there are times where I've felt a little bit like, uh oh, should I like be part of this? Even my sister-in-law was like, Kim, I'm worried that you're like in an mlm. And like I kind of get it. Like there's this weird totally wild west feeling of everyone just being able to do whatever they want, which to be honest, I also love, you know, versus academia or like other institutional kind of like gate gatekeeping processes. 

But the downside is there's like no regulation, no gate keeping at all. Anyone can just like nail a shingle to their door and be like, wellness coach, like buy my vitamins and like, you don't know like what's in there. Right? Um, so that sometimes feels a little troubling. And if any of my like beloved friends are listening to this <laugh>, I'm so sorry if that feels really tough, we can talk about it. Um, but I think the rose is sort of a flip side of the same, which is just that it has felt so good to get paid for work that I feel like I was doing for free most of my life. And I think that most right. My colleagues feel that way too, where it's like in academia especially, I felt like well so much of what's making me a good teacher and what's making me a good researcher and a good student are these like other qualities about like how empathetic I can be and how attentive and how much I care. 

And none of that is really like, can't really like talk about it. It's so ephemeral. And I feel like those are all the things that I'm getting compensated for now as a coach. And like running my own business has really felt almost like a healing experience of like care work, women's work work that we consider just to be even like sex work, although I'm not having sex with any of my clients, it's like just talking about intimacy, talking about these deeper things. It's like, damn, we expect most women to do all of this shit for free. So it feels really good to be getting paid for it instead. Um, and I have found that even around some of the more painful things, like it almost feels like I'm getting paid back for like healing that I had to go do by myself, like around trauma of my own. And there's something really like nuanced but radical that feels like, it's like balancing out the universe that it's like, well here's a million dollar business in exchange it feels like the least the patriarchy can do. Frankly, 

Speaker 1 (35:26):

Not bad. It's not <laugh>. Yeah, that's fine. Not bad, not a bad balance. 

Speaker 2 (35:31):

Your invoice 

Speaker 1 (35:32):

<laugh>. Yeah. Um, um, that was a, a really interesting tho and I haven't, I haven't had anybody say that before <laugh> and I appreciate it. That's that's really insightful. 

Speaker 2 (35:43):

Yeah. Oh, oh wait, I just go have one more thing. 

Speaker 1 (35:48):

Talk to me 

Speaker 2 (35:49):

Those skills to like translate over being able to sit in silence with a room full of people not talking yet that I feel like I take that from my professor training <laugh>. So if I'm like, who wants to go first and my whole group is quiet, I'm like, you're not gonna out awkward silence me. I was a grad student. <laugh>. 

Speaker 1 (36:14):

I was gonna say I, you were just talking about coaching but uh, and you're also though you're sort of teaching online classes <laugh> 

Speaker 2 (36:23):

Totally. It 

Speaker 1 (36:23):

Sounds like as well. Totally. I'm like, you've got the, the professor training 

Speaker 2 (36:28):

<laugh> totally 

Speaker 1 (36:29):

Coming through. Um, so if somebody turned to you today, last, last big question. Yeah. Um, and asked how to get to do what you're doing or something similar, what are a few first steps you might recommend? 

Speaker 2 (36:44):

Yeah, I love that I would actually recommend starting to think about like what pieces of our own work or what we've studied we feel most excited to share. Like if there is something, like for me it really did feel like it had a lot to do with like women's empowerment work that felt like, oh, I wanna talk about this with more people. But I have colleagues who work on climate change and colleagues even who are working on like what might feel more like esoteric or like historical or even, you know, literature based, but it's like people wanna know more. And I actually think that most people are really hungry for like a more robust like public intellectual scene <laugh>, for lack of a better word. So even if somebody is like, Well I would love to teach like a 10 week class on Jane Austin like I do, I think all of that would be really welcomed. 

And so thinking about like what turns us on the most, what would we want to be talking about and then like doing all of the minds at work, maybe with a coach maybe not to feel like you could actually go out and invite people into it. Even if at first it starts just like mine at the very beginning was like women coming over to my apartment and like I made a pot of black bean soup and we were just like sitting in the circle, you know? And I think it was like donation only and then it grew and grew and grew to now where I'm like, yeah, like if you wanna come, here's the sales page <laugh>. And it feels a lot more organized, but just kind of whatever you can get behind. But I really do believe, I actually believe everybody, you know, has something that they could teach and saw if they wanted, but it's even more true for us. 

Like we literally all went and learned like a bunch of things <laugh>. So it's like, okay, great. What would, what would feel good? Um, and if coaching does resonate, there are some great coaching trainings. I have one that is like more focused on trauma and stuff if people want that. But the truth is, even if you just wanted to like share what, you know, we now have so many great platforms for that and I'm positive there are people like in our networks that would want that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I even remember feeling that way about my other grad student friends, like, well I would love to take like an intro to art history class from you mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I feel like if we were just more brave and it's hard, but also like really trusting that we really do have something to share and people really want that and you're allowed to get paid for it if you want. Mm-hmm. 

Speaker 1 (39:41):

<affirmative> that's great. Thank you so much for sharing. Um, where can people connect with you? 

Speaker 2 (39:47):

Yes, I am mostly on Instagram from my bathtub as I said. Um, and it's Dr. Kimberly Rose. 

Speaker 1 (39:57):

Great. Thank you so much for coming on. This has been an amazing conversation. 

Speaker 2 (40:01):

Yeah. Oh, thank you for having me. I love talking about this. Yeah, 

Speaker 1 (40:05):

It's been, it's been great. And your the, so your social will be linked in the show notes and yeah, that's it. 

Speaker 2 (40:12):

Thank you so much. 

Speaker 1 (40:16):

That's it for this week's episode of the Millennial PhD. You can find more content, resources and information on Instagram at the millennial PhD in this collective moment of reevaluating our relationships with work and exploitation. I look forward to connecting with you and building stronger bonds of community and collaboration. I would love to hear from you via email at the millennial PhD with any feedback, comments, questions, or concerns, or if you're interested in coming on the show as a guest. That's all for now. It's been real. See you next time.