Have you been dreaming of launching a freelance career or side hustle? Not sure where to start or what it entails? Want to jump in but the little voice in your head is telling you, "no, not you"? It's time to hear from someone who is doing it and doing it well! In this episode Mela talks with Fitgi Saint-Louis about taking the plunge, pursuing your dream, and the nuts and bolts of becoming a creative freelancer in 2022.
Fitgi is an incredible multi-disciplined creative and voice-over actor, currently working as a freelance experiential art director. She is also an adjunct professor at the School of Visual Arts.
Connect with Fitgi on LinkedIn or on IG at @givethemhair. She is happy to talk!
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Dr. Carmela Muzio Dormani - aka your host, Mela - is a sociologist, dancer, and creative consultant.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to the Millennial PhD, a podcast about creative survival and beyond. My name is Dr. Carmella Munio Domani, and I'm a sociologist, dancer and creative consultant from New York. In these episodes, you'll find inspiration, ideas, and actionable tips for building new pathways forward in work and life. You'll hear from artists, activists, creative entrepreneurs, PhDs, and professional pivoters. We talk about radical humanity and practical steps to follow your dreams, even in the context of challenging social conditions. Before we jump into today's episode, a quick reminder to follow the millennial PhD on Instagram. And to please take a minute to rate and a review the millennial PhD on Apple podcasts. Your rating really helps the show reach as many listeners as possible. You can learn more about me and get access to free creative resources on the millennial PhD Instagram page, email@example.com. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Welcome back to the millennial PhD, where we've been talking about creative survival in academia and beyond. Today I'm talking with Fiji St. Louis, who is a multidisciplined, creative and voiceover actor, currently working as a freelance experiential art director. She is also an adjunct professor at the School of Visual Arts. Fiji, welcome to the millennial PhD and thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Thank you for having me. So excited to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I'm so excited to talk to you. I'm so happy to have you on. Um, and I can't wait to hear a little bit about your journey into freelancing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you were working previously full-time in the design field, I believe, Um, you and I met through the dance scene. Right. Um, and you've just recently, I believe, transitioned into freelancing. Um, so I wanna hear all about that. So we can go ahead and start with, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah. So, you know, I was in design. I studied that at the school of Visual Arts Graphic design, but I interned and went into a pretty extended career in design for spaces. So with architects and interior designers, working on a lot of great projects all throughout the city and the country. And there was a point where I felt like I knew I wanted to try some new things on my own personal projects and initiatives that were bubbling in my brain, becoming sketches during meetings that I felt like I really had to explore. And like we met through dance, always have been, you know, multifaceted in the ways that I expressed myself. And I wanted to start a path where I could just start to combine things in a way that felt a little bit more unconventional and, uh, different from the traditional style of having one work processes and only one style of project.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, that's amazing. And I feel that in my whole soul <laugh> the piece about having the, the multiple passions or the multiple interests. Um, and you just like from the outside, you're, you're such a creative person. I've just seen you just like oozing the talent in all these different creative fields, uh, which is so amazing and so exciting. Um, so what brought you, I guess, to the decision to pivot into freelancing? And maybe as you're talking about it, you could talk a little bit about kind of how you got to the point that you're at right now.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, so I felt like because I was working on so many different types of projects, I gained this experience of just how to work with clients, how to partner on different teams of different styles, working on different projects speeds, and knowing all the external skills that I had, I figured at this point in my career, about 11 years in, I was in a place where I could start to experiment and I could kind of take these risks that I don't think will ever have in a negative approach or effect on my career because it's the right time to just see where can I align better or where can I infuse different aspects of myself. So I always said as a designer, oh, I'm a storyteller through space, but I also love speaking stories to existence. And that's how then I started getting into voiceover. So I decided that if I had the freedom in time and in my schedule, I could start to mix a lot of these different interests into what my projects could be. So at the moment I'm working with a boutique agency on exhibit design, but I'm still also doing voiceover on the side. And I think what I was seeking for was just more creative freedom and also a schedule where I can just pivot depending on the week and have that flexibility where you, you just can't get that the same way in a standard, you know, nine to five, nine to nine type of job. <laugh>.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Right. Yeah, definitely. Um, so let, let's like get into the nitty gritty just a little bit. Um, cuz I read out in your bio, um, something that I said I I kind of took from your LinkedIn profile, <laugh>, you know, doing, doing my my research, research <laugh>. Um, but so you describe yourself there, um, and a little bit in our conversations as uh, an experiential art director and you just referenced to working right now with a boutique agency. So can you just flesh this out a little bit for folks listening? Like what is it that you have been doing in your, your most recent projects? I know freelance can like really run the gamut mm-hmm. <affirmative>, just kind of a little sampling, a little
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Taste. Yeah. I mean cuz graphic design as a base you can go in so many different directions, which is why I probably chose it as my more conservative professional career as,
Speaker 1 (06:14):
So that was your training was in graphic design. It was like your educational, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative> cool. Mm-hmm <affirmative> great. And you know, so there's a flexibility and a range of projects within that that I love because once you have the structure of understanding the principles of design, typography, color format, story, then you can go into so many different avenues. So for my spot, because I started in architecture, I understood space volume, the way that people go through journeys. So a lot of those projects were based off of creating experiences for workplaces, really infusing brand stories onto walls and to screens and to spaces in ways that might feel a little bit more in your face. Which it's probably a larger sculpture or graphic element or in subtle ways, like the way that the furniture is aligned might relate to the way that a logo is created. And so as a part of that, I feel like a lot of my skillset and my work is in brand identity design.
So whether that's a refresh from something that already exists or a new project that's coming to life, we're really formatting your appearance to your industry against your competitors for your customers, or whether that's form or cultural institution, maybe your visitors or your students. Um, formatting what that looks like on a visual sense and that visual language so that you can build out different pieces from it, whether that's a water bottle or a large wall mural graphic. We were always creating the base language and then from there deciding, okay, if we're creating this experience, for instance, I had worked on, um, the LinkedIn office design, you know, understanding their cultural stories that they wanted to bring. We then infuse that into materials, furniture, and different experiences of the space. So I have a very niche but also broad, uh, band of work that I've done. And it all really stems from a story and a space. For the most part though, I have done and still continue to do webpage design, app design, things that are a little bit more digital because that and space are starting to really converge into one. So having that base into all of them is really helpful.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Can you talk to us a little bit, I don't know if you had sort of started freelancing a little bit while you were working full time or if you just dove into it, how did you get your first client? I feel like this is a big question for folks who wanna go into consulting or freelancing or any gig based work.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah. You know, for me, I had always been freelancing, I would say throughout my career, even if it was a jam jar for my mom or my old dance studio during their, you know, promos for the recital that year. I always had a little bit of a side project happening. Then I was notorious for being the one who always had a personal project on the side. So done paper sculptures and all that pieces. But once I started putting some of that artwork out through Instagram or even like, you have to email people, tell them what you're doing because some of your closest friends might not realize the large skill set that you have. And it's not to be pompous, it's just to share. You need to let people know what you do. And from that point it was, oh, my friend who's in a non-profit knows someone at a company and they're doing a brand redesign, but they want a freelancer and they would connect you.
I would say smaller circle is what leads you further and further out to people because we're, we're not that far off from connecting with different companies, institutions, and people that we wanna work with. You just have to make sure that the ones around you know that because they might know where that happens from. So recently I've been working with either folks that I've worked with prior, or again, family that knew someone in another space. So I've been trying to be, you know, on myself about sharing, even if it's a personal project that I've done or inspiration that I have, staying active on LinkedIn as possible, letting those aspects really allow opportunities to come to me. So that's what I've been doing lately.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah. This is such a big theme that's been coming up kind of across the different interviews in all different industries. Even for folks who were just talking about, say like pivoting out of academia into another field or folks who were talking about any kind of freelance or consulting type gigs. Um, I think it can be really scary for people. It's definitely like a little ADA inducing for me. But at the same time, whether you call it networking or posing on social media or putting yourself out there, um, it's, it's also kind of heartening to hear people talk through that process in different industries and how much it has meant because, um, I think at the end of the day, like we, we build on that in community, right? Like we got each other in some ways. And there's, for me at least, like politically, there's like some, some Harding message in there. I'm like, we got this. Like, we have, we have resources
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And yes, like, and there's people that are within your circle that are doing things, connect with them. So that's how you just create more opportunities. Like I feel like we're in a place where you don't need someone else to do anything that you're inspired to do. But like you started a podcast, you can just get a phone, get a camera, make it happen. You wanna make a TV show, get your, get your phone, put it out and you can literally make content. Um, or stories. I'm always on this whole thing like not just making content for content sake cause I'm having some meaning behind it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And if you have something that is important to you, there's going to be something that it relates to other people and connects with them. So do the things that you're most passionate about, put it out as authentically also as true to you. And then you're just gonna enjoy that. Like, that's huge.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, I love that. And I love the, the piece about stories as the connective tissue. Um,
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Let's talk about the voiceover work a little bit as well. Cuz we, we, we've mentioned it but we haven't really talked about it. What spoke to you about that, I guess that subfield specifically and how did you get into that? How did you get started on that?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So after I graduated from the school of Visual Arts, I always just kept my eye on some of the continuing education classes. And I grew up with my parents both in the medical field who always had some type of weekend class hobby. Like my mom was in a sewing class or in floral design. And I went with my dad too and art class that he used to do at Hofstra. And I think that already showed to me the importance of finding things beyond the day to day to consistently either learn from or be creative and stretch your skills in. So I was looking for something to break up the monotony of the week and I found this voiceover class and I started doing one session and I did a secondary one. And what I loved about it was, I just always love, again telling stories, but then understanding the nuances of voice and how people can hear emotions through the way that you speak, really spoke to me on a level that I'm sure is like ancestral from the grios of the past till now.
And how we just share, um, with all the technology that's happened, there's nothing that makes me happier than sitting with people and talking and sharing and voiceover seemed like a fun way to do that, even though it's a little commercial depending on the clients that you have. And I was like, let's try to see what this could be about. What I mostly, mostly love about it too though is that it's super remote. You don't necessarily need to be in a space and from being a desk, you know, based person, it felt like this was an entryway into having travel flexibility and, and location changeability that I was looking for in a way that as long as I have a microphone, some good acoustics and a laptop, I can get projects done.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Mm. Beautiful. Um, actually I have a question written down for you a little down the road, but I'm gonna bring it up here, <laugh>, um, which is about travel. Cause I've seen, you've been, you've been traveling a little bit lately and I was gonna ask you what role that plays in your, um, I guess your decisions or, or your plans is, is part of the freelance work to be able to travel? Is that part of, you know, the big picture for you?
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah, there was, I always wanted to find a way to just experience different spaces. New York, born and raised, went to high school, went to college, stayed at work in the same place, love New York. It's the place where culture is always happening. So because it's my home base, I'm like, this seems like the perfect, the perfect, uh, yeah, with the pandemic, perfect time in life to go out and try and see and experience different spaces. You know, there's a ton of headaches at the moment that that adds, but the fulfillment that I feel that I'm not necessarily going somewhere just to feel like I'm on vacation, but to experience local cultures and to have just a moment to kind of think and rest and dream of new ideas and new possibilities in different places around the world. So that has been pretty much the driver of the types of projects that I'm willing to take at the moment. Why freelancing and design works in that realm, why voiceover works perfectly. And even in my teaching, um, when I came back for this semester, I made that a point like, I will teach, I have no problem, but I need to be remote, so give me a remote class and I'll make it happen. <laugh>.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah. So, um, when did you start teaching as an adjunct at sba?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I started last year. Must have been? Yes. So, you know, first year during a pandemic is also different. Um, and teaching design is, you know, a process in its own where there's a little bit of like, I'm sure there's an all academia but sink or swim. Like you get into the space and you're like, all right, gotta build this curriculum. What do I want people to take away? How was I taught that I want to continue for this class? What did I not enjoy for my experience that I wanna change? Right. And I think in the time period we're in too is even about broadening the references, the mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, stories, the people that we would be teaching about didn't just have to be male white centric based in North America or Europe. Yeah. But design is happening everywhere, so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I also felt like that responsibility as a female black teacher to expand what that, you know, knowledge base could be as a professor in the school. So it's all been on computer for me, which is also different. Yeah. I am a, you know, communal person and being in a space, but I've been trying to find ways to infuse culture, personality and just history through Zoom. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah. Yeah. The different teaching modalities right now is like, I'm all over the place. I, I have a little bit of live in person, a little bit of live online and then I have the asynchronous online ones Wow. As well, which is like the real challenge. I'm
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Just like it real deal
Speaker 1 (18:14):
<laugh> trying to, doing
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Speaker 1 (18:16):
All. Trying to, I mean, yeah. You know, <laugh>, it's not a hundred percent by choice, but make it work. But that's amazing. That's amazing. Um, that you've been doing that it sounds, um, sounds like a, a dope curriculum.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Speaker 1 (18:33):
As a freelancer in general at the moment, what would you say is a rose and a thorn for you right now? So something that you're loving about the experience and something that maybe is a little bit challenging?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I love at the moment the flexibility a of projects, but then also people that I get to interact with. Um, I mean, there's nothing like having a tribe of people that you consistently create with because then you can continue to grow in that environment. But I'm loving meeting different people of different backgrounds and different practices working on these projects and then being able to meet another group of people and do the same for whatever type of project that is. So I like the just diversity of, you know, interest skills and even project types that I'm encountering, which I didn't have before. I had to say the thorn is probably healthcare <laugh>, like trying to organize that <laugh>.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Speaker 2 (19:35):
No joke. I mean that's when you really was, you really realize, uh, you know, the cost of that has been always a key element to keeping people in a space that was more consistent, um, and felt like it was more solid. And so I'm still going through websites of finding what the best plan is and who my providers are because health is in general something really important to me. I'm going to all my dental visits mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if I have therapy that I need to be in, I'm finding professionals to collaborate with. So it's not something I wanna just like let go at it really is a thing. And it makes you then think about the difference if you were freelancing in America versus if you were freelancing in another country where it's a little bit more Right. Universal. Uh, where then would you want your base location to be starts to become a bigger question?
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, I did, I did an interview with someone who had just moved to Portugal, um, to basically as her home base for her like new entrepreneurial journey. And I was kinda like <laugh>, she was selling it
Speaker 2 (20:43):
<laugh> because it's a struggle here. You really have to budget a lot and that changes then maybe what your fee structure is. I would say that's another aspect that I'm really trying to get down is contracts and making sure that the pay that I'm seeking can really cover all the expenses that I have. You become more of a project manager, whether or not you like it, you also become more of an accountant. A lot of those things that you relied on a larger, you know, system, you now need to be in control of that. So it comes with more responsibility, with the freedom and uh, but you know, it's then up to you where you wanna take it.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah. And thank you for saying that about the healthcare situation because first of all it's egregious, but second of all, um, this is the, you know, this is the thing like to, that's an important piece of it, which is the resource question, right? Not just in terms of income, but as you're pointing out in terms of healthcare basic benefits and the things that tie us to traditional work environments sometimes. Yeah. Um, so I wanna pivot for, for a few minutes if you have a few more minutes, um, to talk to what I like to call my, like nuts and bolts questions. Mm. Um, because I think sometimes people like to hear a little bit about kind of the, the details of these fields that can feel like they're mysterious or or difficult to get into. Um, so what would you say a typical day looks like for you? Right now,
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I am still defining it, but at the moment I'm trying to create more structure. So I, even in the morning I'm trying to infuse more wellness into my day. I felt like that was something that was missing, you know, from the day to day, wake up, get to the office, leave, teach a dance class, <laugh>, go to rehearsal, get back on the train, sleep, do it over again. I feel like that's where I was starting to lose myself. And so waking up, trying not to get onto Instagram first thing, meditate a little bit. I'm actually trying to do duo lingo so I'm learning a new language, trying to get some Spanish in and then I'm looking
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Doo right now too
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Past. It's funny. <laugh>. Oh yeah. And um, then looking at the schedule, if I'm on the computer for one of the freelance projects, organizing that, and then on the latter half of the day either reaching out to people in my network, like I've been proactive about that and that's what you need to consistently do. You have to basically be doing business development all the time, reaching out to folks, sharing portfolios, sharing information, seeing what they're doing, reacting to it. I think there's like a day that a part of the day has to be about connecting with people, whether about the project that you're doing or outside of that. Uh, but I do realize that I also, my stamina for just sitting down and being on the computer completely changed in the last seven months. So I am also running or if I'm not running, I'm doing yoga. If I'm not not doing yoga, I've been in a space where I'm taking dance class at home. So the day, no matter if you have to leave your house at not, there's still never enough time. So you just gotta break it down on what's actually plausible and not be upset that you're not able to do nine things in a day. We're not meant to do that. So I try to spread it out also over a week.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Nice. Amazing. Um, and I asked this qu that question to almost everybody. I knew you had such a, a wide variety of responses, which is so great. I mean, cuz some people are like, every day is different <laugh>. Yeah, yeah. Um, and other folks talk about, you know, kind of trying to get a certain type of routine going. Um, I think it's just really helpful to hear the, the basically the diversity of ways that this can unfold for people. Like is it, it can be super structured or it can be time blocking or it can be
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Mm-hmm <affirmative> it all depends on what like makes you the most comfortable. I feel like I've tried a lot of different ways. Like there's with time blocking, I've tried to do that where I got out my whole week, but there's always something that then happens on a random Wednesday afternoon that throws off what you do on Friday morning. But at times I did feel more in control of my time. So there's that. And then there's other weeks where I want the flexibility to wake up and say, Right, what do we want to do today? I don't know how long that's gonna last in my life, but for now I'm gonna use it
Speaker 1 (25:08):
<laugh>. Yeah. Um, so if, um, what skills do you have that you feel like you're utilizing the most right now? I've heard you mention project management, um, and a couple of other things. Talk to me
Speaker 2 (25:22):
The most. I mean there's a mix of a lot of different aspects, but I do think it's a bit of it is project management. I would say that's probably the biggest piece because whether the project is something personal or it's something about the house, it's really just organizing time and thinking about schedules in advance. I think that then allows you to figure out the time areas where you can, you know, explore an experiment or if your heads down and working on something specific. But I find that is important just trying to plan out, because then it also leads me to targeting who I want to connect with, right? So I'm connecting with people with intent. This person is working in a smaller architecture firm, then that works out with this point in the schedule where I want to start working on that. Or if I know in two months that's when I'm gonna have time off. Who is that friend that said they wanted to go to Croatia? How is your schedule still looking? <laugh>? So connecting with folks with intention, but based off of, you know, a planned schedule is, is starting to really be critical in making sure that I feel like I have ownership of kind of those next moves that I wanna make.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Amazing. Um, if someone came to you today and asked how to get to do what you're doing, what are some first steps that you might recommend for them?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Ooh, okay. So I guess I'll break it down in two ways. One of the designs I and one vo. So in design now there are so many different avenues where you could really start to sink your teeth into the content of learning design skills. What I love about design skills, and it applies to everything because it's problem solving. So whether that is taking a course that is continuing ed at a design agency or with different instructors that are leading their own personal courses on the side, see who you're inspired by and start to do that. I'd also say sketch, just pick up a pen, make those ideas. And if you're able to get your hands on the programs and the digital side, then you can bring it to another fruition. But a lot of it starts off with just you and your own creativity and you don't need much to get that started.
Um, I would say that's probably one of the easiest ways to start getting into design. And then if you have a specific niche, again in architecture there's a lot of avenues, whether it's from a professional organization like AIA or more graphic design, A I G A, uh, you can really start to seed the types of work that people are creating and then understand the larger industry there, find people, make connections, see the projects that will start to get you in a path. But exercising your skills daily really starts to make a difference. So even if it's 20 minutes on the side of whatever you're doing, that can start to build up your own confidence in yourself and your ability to bring ideas to a page or to fruition. On the voiceover side, taking a class also helps, but even listening. So I was not much of a TV person, like I stream way more than I'll listen to commercials, but that's how you start to hear the different voices and types of work that are available.
Voiceover is another thing. You wanna be more didactic. You can do audiobooks or things that are more instructional or if you want, you can go on a commercial route and if you have different voices you can kind of practice with that is video game, voiceover another space, find a class, find an instructor. And if you don't even have that, take YouTube videos or advertisements, transcribe it yourself so you know the copy, take your phone, use the voice memo and start to act those lines out. And when you play it back to yourself, that's when you can really hear, Oh, I sounded so flat and dry on that, I thought I was energetic. And you realize sometimes how much more you truly have to act in a physical space so that someone hears it in your voice. And then from there there's different resources like 1, 3, 2, 1 voices I believe, or voices 1, 2, 3 that you can get on. They post jobs, a lot of them are entry level, so you can start working on smaller projects and seeing how that is. But those are the two ways you can kind of get your feet into either designer or voiceover as I've done them.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
<laugh>. That's amazing. Thank you. So helpful. And I have to say, even like listening back to this podcast as I've been producing it is <laugh>, you know, you really hear your voice in a different way and yeah. Um, in earlier episode, just like things like um, or mm-hmm <affirmative> up speak that I would hear in my voice and you don't realize it. Um, or different accent even for me, like I, I shift in and out of different dialects of <laugh> like
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Freedom, it's natural, you're from New York, people like, where are you from?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
What do you all over the place? Like it's just boom, boom. Um, so it's, it's, it's so fascinating. Um, it doesn't seem like a big deal when you're talking and then you hear it back and you're like, oh, <laugh>
Speaker 2 (30:47):
All the way moments to work. And even now I use some of those voiceover skills in a meeting presentation because depending on the zoom, if someone's not looking at your face, they're also hearing that, uh, not trying to act but presenting your story with this idea in your head and understanding, oh, if I inflect on this or I end this way, I could either emotionally affect someone or I can help them with a decision. So using that lately. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Amazing. Um, so do you have any other, any other parting advice that you wanted to put out into the world about any of your, your multiple creative fields or, or, or, or I guess the experience of freelancing even
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I guess my space is coming from like the advice of trusting in your, I don't wanna say dream per se, but for me I felt like there was a point where I wish I would push myself out into this world a little sooner and I was afraid of either mistakes or what the possibility of like whatever a definition of failure was. And when I realized, especially then with the pandemic, how fluctuating things could be for anyone, then it just seemed like if you feel like you have that intent, you have an itch to do something different or to expand, then act on that while you have that because you don't wanna lose it. And the worst is you can go back to whatever it was you were probably doing before. I don't think you're gonna lose out a hundred percent on what was there. So whether it's in design or voiceover or freelance, try it. And if it doesn't work you can always switch it up. I think nothing is finite and you can have that ability to say, I thought I wanted to do this, I tried it, I love it, I hate it, whatever the case is. But then, you know, you can move forward from that possibility of what is going to happen next.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah. Amazing. Is there anything I didn't ask you about that you wanted to talk about?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Hmm. I think, I mean we hit on all the spaces I think. I think we're good.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
<laugh>. Great. So where can people connect with you, um, on social media?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
So if you wanna reach out and I'm down and to talk to anybody, hit me up on LinkedIn at Fiji St. Louis or on Instagram at Give them hair. I think those are probably the two easiest places to find me if you have any questions or wanna chop it up about anything under the sun, that's how you can find me.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Great. And so those will be linked in the episode notes as well. Um, so people can definitely reach out to you. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on and, and talk to me. This is,
Speaker 2 (33:43):
This is, Thanks for having me. I'm so excited for the platform. I think it's gonna be great for people to continue to hear from different experiences. Cause nothing's the same, so
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah. All right. Love it. Thanks again.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Thank you <laugh>.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
That's it for this week's episode of the Millennial PhD. You can find more content, resources and information on Instagram at the millennial PhD firstname.lastname@example.org in this collective moment of reevaluating our relationships with work and exploitation. I look forward to connecting with you and building stronger bonds of community and collaboration. I would love to hear from you via email at the millennial PhD gmail.com with any feedback, comments, questions, or concerns, or if you're interested in coming on the show as a guest. That's all for now. It's been real. See you next time.